Alan Chambers, Mike Goeke, Brian Kliewer all speak at the recent Lausanne Conference in South Africa. What an amazing opportunity.

The interview is in part 1 of the three part show for 8/2/2010

This is cross-posted on the ETC Blog.  Here is an audio file (embedded at the end of this post as well.)

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Today is the day that I remember the actual moment in which I turned away from my gay worldview and began my Christian post-gay journey.

This is *not* the day I became a Christian.  I was born again before I turned away from homosexuality.  The anniversary of accepting Christ as Lord and Savior is in the last week of May.  So yes, I considered myself a “gay Christian” for the whole two months between May and July of 1992.

During a prayer time 18 years ago the Lord (no one else in the room,) in the most gracious and life-giving way, explained to me that I was not the abomination mentioned in Leviticus 18:22.  What He detested was what kept me from a full revelation of Himself.  He saw every sexual thing I ever did. He saw every other sin I had ever done too.  He saw, and understood, why I loved men the way I did.  He mourned with me over a very significant relationship I had in my past where an ex had died of AIDS.  But instead of sending hellfire and brimstone, He sent a grieving Savior, full of love and understanding.  He sent Him to free me from the penalty of sin and point to Himself as a better way to Live.

I didn’t fully understand what it meant to be a Christian. I never expected my orientation to change (didn’t even really think about it being a true possibility during the first three years) but after that prayer time, regardless of my sexual orientation, I knew I would never identify as gay again.  My Christianity will never be qualified/contextualized by anything other than Christ.  Without any fear or pressure, without manipulation or condescension from others, I decided to pursue Christ at all cost and allow Him to show me the next right step down this path.

The first year sucked.  I wish I could say something nicer but that was the word I used over and over.  I grieved the loss of an identity.  I didn’t have to reject my gay friends … they did it for me (some came back around later.)  I still didn’t like Christians (carried over from when I did identify as gay) and I have to say those first couple of years were quite treacherous.  Moving from the gay community I had been a part of into the church was a pretty significant ordeal needing a lot of translation and care.

Just so you know, I love my Christian family now and have taken my place in the Church.  We’re cool

I know some have said they have had awful experiences in the “ex-gay ministry” world.  I have heard legitimate complaints/criticisms and where I can help to find some sort of positive change or reconciliation I do. Some of the criticism … I can’t quite figure out their true motivation. In the end the critics motivations are unknowable by anyone other than themselves and I must listen with a humbly open ear.  But I have to say, honestly, I never lived in an ex-gay world or experienced some of the horror stories being told.  In fact, the norm of what does exist out there is not anywhere near accurately described by those who sharply criticize those of us on a Christian post-gay journey.

When I leave the ministry or my job at Exodus at the end of the day, I just don’t think about being “ex-gay.”  I tried to wear the label “ex-gay” a few times and it felt like I was trying to put on a coat ten times too small.  I never wanted to be in an “ex-gay” world so I never identified as such.  I am not gay, ex-gay or a straight wannabee. I’m a Christian, man of God, brother in Christ … period.

Here are a few “nevers.”  I was never chased down and beaten over the head by a Bible wielding fundamentalist.  I have never chased down and beaten anyone else over the head to make them ask me my opinions on identity and homosexuality.  I’ve never been in reparative therapy (not knocking it, just didn’t utilize it for myself.)  I’ve never had to have demons exorcised out of me … no one has ever suggested I had too.  I’ve never been to “ex-gay” camp or been a part of some of the bizarre “counseling” techniques being employed out there.

Here are some “haves.” I have struggles and temptations.  I have had a sexual orientation shift.  I have had periods of time where I haven’t struggled at all and felt completely normal heterosexual desire.  I have had periods of time where I struggle strongly with same sex attractions. I have been cynical and said things I wish I hadn’t.  I have questioned my faith and my own version of “wrestling/reasoning with God.”

I have experienced the *powerful* and complementary witness of of my sisters in Christ.  My friendships with women have made me a better man.  I have had several significant dating relationships, one in particular, that showed the power of God’s love and intimacy, born in gender complementary relationship and witness, in a way that can’t be experienced in any other way.  I am a better man today as a result.

All of that without extramarital sex

I have also known transcendant joy in many areas of life.  I know God intimately and yearn to know Him more.  I have experienced His presence through trials and celebration.  I have kept Christ my only goal so not matter what my feelings or desires are, I am complete in Him.  Whether I ever marry or not… I am complete in Him.  In truth, it is only by His love that I am empowered to follow Him.

God’s awesome like that.

He has been faithful to build me up, cleanse those areas that need to be cleansed, heal the wounds, share His joy and lead me forward.  Jesus does so with the understanding that He will continue to build up, cleanse, heal, enjoy and lead me forward.

And what Christian can’t say the same thing?  Seriously, no matter what our “moments” in life of turning away from our understanding to His leading … we all share the same testimony at the end of the day … “for Christ alone is worthy of our praise.”

I will continue on my journey following Christ.  I am so grateful for the love of friends I have and am making along the way. Sometimes it isn’t easy (sometimes it is) but regardless of circumstance, He is worth it.

This interview with Pure Passion was taped five years ago. It was taped before the show went to HD and they just upgraded it to HD. I enjoyed the interview and am glad they have made it available.

A *lot* of ground was covered but there are a couple of things I want to clarify. I don’t believe reparative therapy model is the only answer for people who develop homosexuality and I have never been to literal “reparative therapy.” However, my life circumstances fall completely in line with that theory and have been positively influenced by resources written by Dr. Nicolosi. So while that theory of environmental causation isn’t true for everyone, it is definitely true for me.

Also, toward the end when I say that “I would never be gay again,” I meant that in the sense that I did reject that identity and my life goals were completely changed after that prayer time. I didn’t and haven’t become super-human immune to temptation. I just know why and what to do about it if and when temptations come along.

And, to update on my relationship with my parents, I have a *much* more transparent relationship with my Mom and Step-father. A lot of healing has occurred. The Lord has been very gracious to continue to bring reconciliation in our family.

God is good

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ADF to appeal decision against wrongly fired Ga. counselor

Christian counselor acted in best interests of client but loses job for honoring professional, ethical obligations
Friday, March 26, 2010

ATLANTA — Alliance Defense Fund attorneys will appeal a judge’s ruling against a licensed counselor fired after she referred a person seeking same-sex relationship counseling to a colleague. Rather than attempt to provide a service that would conflict with her sincerely-held religious beliefs on homosexual behavior, Marcia Walden acted in the best interests of the potential client and referred her to another counselor; however, the counselee later filed a complaint that ultimately cost Walden her job.

“A counselor who is a Christian shouldn’t lose her job for upholding the highest professional standards,” said ADF Senior Counsel Brian Raum. “It is unlawful to punish Marcia for following her Christian faith, particularly when she made every effort to accommodate the needs of a potential client. Referring her to another competent counselor instead of attempting to offer her own counsel in such a situation was the ethical thing to do for the person seeking help. It’s egregious to be fired for honoring professional and ethical obligations, and we regret the court didn’t see this. We will certainly appeal.”

On Aug. 21, 2007, a woman employed at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sought counsel from Walden, a counselor at Computer Sciences Corporation, regarding a same-sex relationship.  Walden explained that the client’s needs would conflict with her values and that, therefore, it would not be fair to the potential client for her to serve as the woman’s counselor. As a result, Walden referred the individual to a colleague.

After meeting with the client, Walden’s colleague told her that she had done “the right thing” by referring the woman to him. However, the client later filed a complaint against Walden which led to an investigation and religiously-based questioning from Walden’s supervisors. She was later terminated as an employee.

The decision in Walden v. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention came from the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Georgia, Atlanta Division. ADF attorneys filed the lawsuit in 2008.

…

We are starting to see an uptick in attacks against professional counselors who do directly help people struggling with unwanted homosexuality and, like this counselor, who actually did abide by the ethics of her profession and referred the client to another counselor.  Stay tuned …

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Those who take seriously the authority of God’s Word should be aware that perhaps no subject poses a greater threat to the place of Scripture in our world today. If the world (and too often, even the church) can be convinced that we can ignore what the Bible teaches about homosexuality, then every other teaching of Scripture can be rationalized. Rejecting its teachings means confidence in the Bible as the inspired Word of God will be seriously eroded.

Unfortunately, Christians have not taken the time to prepare to defend the truth we believe. We may be familiar with the relevant passages, but simply quoting those passages will do nothing for those who have taken the time to understand the pro-gay arguments.

Those arguments usually will be based on one or more of the following approaches to the Bible:

1. References to homosexuality are simply relics of the culture at a certain time and place. Generally this argument does not deny what the Bible says; it just relegates it to a particular era of ignorance and prejudice.
2. The words used for homosexuality have been misunderstood and/or misinterpreted. These words don’t refer to homosexuality as we know it today.
3. Those who wrote the relevant passages of Scripture had no knowledge or understanding of committed gay relationships. Consequently, these passages only refer to specific homosexual acts and not homosexuality as a whole.
4. Jesus never said one word about homosexuality.

These arguments conveniently overlook several key factors. The passages that speak against homosexuality were written over a span of almost two thousand years. From the theocentric Old Testament tribes of the Judean wilderness to the cosmopolitan, multicultural and idol-saturated  cities of New Testament Greece and Rome, God clearly intended to call all cultures throughout all times to conform to His Word.

Likewise, arguments regarding word definitions simply will not hold up under serious scholarly examination either. Ironically, gay activists often argue that those who believe what the Bible says are guilty of shoddy scholarship. However, the record of both Testaments as well as the Septuagint speaks with one voice on this issue. Consistent application of accepted exegetical principles leaves no gray area here. Neither do these principles allow the distinction of one type of homosexual act from another.

One of the most frequently repeated quotes heard on talk shows, letters to the editor, and in general conversation is that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. John, however, states that Jesus said many things that were not recorded (John 21:25). Beyond this, Jesus made it clear that He considered the writings of the Old Testament to be authoritative and trustworthy.

The fact that nothing He said about homosexuality is recorded would most reasonably indicate that He saw no reason to add to or change what already was recorded. Jesus also never mentioned pedophilia, wife beating, or drug abuse. Even in a post-modern world it would be difficult to make the argument that He was unconcerned about these issues. Furthermore, this pro-gay “argument from silence” only makes sense if you ignore Jesus’ teachings about marriage in Matthew 19 and Mark 10 or disregard Trinitarian faith.  Jesus was also “speaking” through the Holy Spirit inspired writings of Moses and Paul.

The Bible is very clear that any and all sexual relationships outside of marriage are forbidden. It is equally clear that marriage is to be between a man and a woman.

There is yet one final consideration that I’ve not seen addressed. In all the passages relating to homosexuality, the home, and sexuality in general, not a single passage can be found that in any way legitimizes or speaks positively of homosexuality.

While the Bible is quite clear about the sin of homosexual behavior, it is also clear about the promise of power to overcome this sin as well as others (1 Corinthians 6:11). The message of the Bible is a message of hope based on the love of God. He does love each of us just as we are, but He loves us too much to leave us as we are.

For a more thorough examination of the relevant passages (Genesis 19; Leviticus 18:22;  20:13; Romans 1:22-29; 1 Corinthians 6:9;; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 1:7) see:

• A booklet by Dr. Albert Mohler – “Homosexuality and the Bible: Telling the Truth, Twisting the Truth and Trusting the Truth” (Published by Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, it is also available on Dr. Mohler’s website.)
• “Desires in Conflict” by Joe Dallas (Available through Exodus Books.)
• “Homosexuality and the Bible: Two Views” by professors Dan O. Via and Robert A. J. Gagnon (Other resources from Dr. Gagnon are available from Exodus Books.)
• “Fact Sheet” on the LifeWay Web site

Adapted from an article originally published in Homosexuality: Your Questions Answered, compiled by the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Used by permission.

Author Bob Stith is the pastor of Carroll Baptist Church in Southlake, Texas. He has a bachelor’s degree from Samford University and an M.Div. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. Bob has been involved in Exodus International for over 10 years. He has spoken at many churches and Exodus related events. He has also written several articles on the subject of homosexuality and the church. Bob is chairman of the board for Living Hope Ministries, an Exodus-affiliated ministry in Dallas-Fort Worth. Bob and his wife, Del, live in Southlake, Texas.

Last week 152 Orthodox, Catholic and Evangelical leaders issued the Manhattan Declaration that makes a commitment to speak to issues of Life, Marriage and Religious Liberty (link to file download at the end of the post.)  The authors did a very good job of explaining their positions and intentions within the manifesto.

For the purposes of this post I am quoting the section on marriage. I am interested in your feedback.  That said, the bolded emphasis in parts of this quote are mine to highlight what stood out to me.

Sidenote: As far as I know, Alan Chambers wasn’t aware of the declaration coming out. In that light, I thought it was is interesting that he felt led to write about public policy here and here right before this news came down.

Marriage

The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. Genesis 2:23-24

This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:32-33

In Scripture, the creation of man and woman, and their one­ flesh union as husband and wife, is the crowning achievement of God’s creation. In the transmission of life and the nurturing of children, men and women joined as spouses are given the great honor of being partners with God Himself. Marriage then, is the first institution of human society—indeed it is the institution on which all other human institutions have their foundation. In the Christian tradition we refer to marriage as “holy matrimony” to signal the fact that it is an institution ordained by God, and blessed by Christ in his participation at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. In the Bible, God Himself blesses and holds marriage in the highest esteem.

Vast human experience confirms that marriage is the original and most important institution for sustaining the health, education, and welfare of all persons in a society. Where marriage is honored, and where there is a flourishing marriage culture, everyone benefits—the spouses themselves, their children, the communities and societies in which they live. Where the marriage culture begins to erode, social pathologies of every sort quickly manifest themselves. Unfortunately, we have witnessed over the course of the past several decades a serious erosion of the marriage culture in our own country. Perhaps the most telling—and alarming—indicator is the out­of­wedlock birth rate. Less than fifty years ago, it was under 5 percent. Today it is over 40 percent. Our society—and particularly its poorest and most vulnerable sectors, where the out­ of­wedlock birth rate is much higher even than the national average—is paying a huge price in delinquency, drug abuse, crime, incarceration, hopelessness, and despair. Other indicators are widespread non­marital sexual cohabitation and a devastatingly high rate of divorce.

We confess with sadness that Christians and our institutions have too often scandalously failed to uphold the institution of marriage and to model for the world the true meaning of marriage. Insofar as we have too easily embraced the culture of divorce and remained silent about social practices that undermine the dignity of marriage we repent, and call upon all Christians to do the same.

To strengthen families, we must stop glamorizing promiscuity and infidelity and restore among our people a sense of the profound beauty, mystery, and holiness of faithful marital love. We must reform ill­ advised policies that contribute to the weakening of the institution of marriage, including the discredited idea of unilateral divorce. We must work in the legal, cultural, and religious domains to instill in young people a sound understanding of what marriage is, what it requires, and why it is worth the commitment and sacrifices that faithful spouses make.

The impulse to redefine marriage in order to recognize same­ sex and multiple partner relationships is a symptom, rather than the cause, of the erosion of the marriage culture. It reflects a loss of understanding of the meaning of marriage as embodied in our civil and religious law and in the philosophical tradition that contributed to shaping the law. Yet it is critical that the impulse be resisted, for yielding to it would mean abandoning the possibility of restoring a sound understanding of marriage and, with it, the hope of rebuilding a healthy marriage culture. It would lock into place the false and destructive belief that marriage is all about romance and other adult satisfactions, and not, in any intrinsic way, about procreation and the unique character and value of acts and relationships whose meaning is shaped by their aptness for the generation, promotion and protection of life. In spousal communion and the rearing of children (who, as gifts of God, are the fruit of their parents’ marital love), we discover the profound reasons for and benefits of the marriage covenant.

We acknowledge that there are those who are disposed towards homosexual and polyamorous conduct and relationships, just as there are those who are disposed towards other forms of immoral conduct. We have compassion for those so disposed; we respect them as human beings possessing profound, inherent, and equal dignity; and we pay tribute to the men and women who strive, often with little assistance, to resist the temptation to yield to desires that they, no less than we, regard as wayward. We stand with them, even when they falter. We, no less than they, are sinners who have fallen short of God’s intention for our lives. We, no less than they, are in constant need of God’s patience, love and forgiveness. We call on the entire
Christian community to resist sexual immorality, and at the same time refrain from disdainful condemnation of those who yield to it. Our rejection of sin, though resolute, must never become the rejection of sinners. For every sinner, regardless of the sin, is loved by God, who seeks not our destruction but rather the conversion of our hearts. Jesus calls all who wander from the path of virtue to “a more excellent way.” As his disciples we will reach out in love to assist all who hear the call and wish to answer it.

We further acknowledge that there are sincere people who disagree with us, and with the teaching of the Bible and Christian tradition, on questions of sexual morality and the nature of marriage. Some who enter into same­sex and polyamorous relationships no doubt regard their unions as truly marital. They fail to understand, however, that marriage is made possible by the sexual complementarity of man and woman, and that the comprehensive, multi­level sharing of life that marriage is includes bodily unity of the sort that unites husband and wife biologically as a reproductive unit. This is because the body is no mere extrinsic instrument of the human person, but truly part of the personal reality of the human being. Human beings are not merely centers of consciousness or emotion, or minds, or spirits, inhabiting non­personal bodies. The human person is a dynamic unity of body, mind, and spirit. Marriage is what one man and one woman establish when, forsaking all others and pledging lifelong commitment, they found a sharing of life at every level of being—the biological, the emotional, the dispositional, the rational, the spiritual— on a commitment that is sealed, completed and actualized by loving sexual intercourse in which the spouses become one flesh, not in some merely metaphorical sense, but by fulfilling together the behavioral conditions of procreation. That is why in the Christian tradition, and historically in Western law, consummated marriages are not dissoluble or annullable on the ground of infertility, even though the nature of the marital relationship is shaped and structured by its intrinsic orientation to the great good of procreation.

We understand that many of our fellow citizens, including some Christians, believe that the historic definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman is a denial of equality or civil rights. They wonder what to say in reply to the argument that asserts that no harm would be done to them or to anyone if the law of the community were to confer upon two men or two women who are living together in a sexual partnership the status of being “married.” It would not, after all, affect their own marriages, would it? On inspection, however, the argument that laws governing one kind of marriage will not affect another cannot stand. Were it to prove anything, it would prove far too much: the assumption that the legal status of one set of marriage relationships affects no other would not only argue for same sex partnerships; it could be asserted with equal validity for polyamorous partnerships, polygamous households, even adult brothers, sisters, or brothers and sisters living in incestuous relationships. Should these, as a matter of equality or civil rights, be recognized as lawful marriages, and would they have no effects on other relationships? No. The truth is that marriage is not something abstract or neutral that the law may legitimately define and re­define to please those who are powerful and influential.

No one has a civil right to have a non­marital relationship treated as a marriage. Marriage is an objective reality—a covenantal union of husband and wife—that it is the duty of the law to recognize and support for the sake of justice and the common good. If it fails to do so, genuine social harms follow. First, the religious liberty of those for whom this is a matter of conscience is jeopardized. Second, the rights of parents are abused as family life and sex education programs in schools are used to teach children that an enlightened understanding recognizes as “marriages” sexual partnerships that many parents believe are intrinsically non­marital and immoral. Third, the common good of civil society is damaged when the law itself, in its critical pedagogical function, becomes a tool for eroding a sound understanding of marriage on which the flourishing of the marriage culture in any society vitally depends. Sadly, we are today far from having a thriving marriage culture. But if we are to begin the critically important process of reforming our laws and mores to rebuild such a culture, the last thing we can afford to do is to re­define marriage in such a way as to embody in our laws a false proclamation about what marriage is.

And so it is out of love (not “animus”) and prudent concern for the common good (not “prejudice”), that we pledge to labor ceaselessly to preserve the legal definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman and to rebuild the marriage culture. How could we, as Christians, do otherwise? The Bible teaches us that marriage is a central part of God’s creation covenant. Indeed, the union of husband and wife mirrors the bond between Christ and his church. And so just as Christ was willing, out of love, to give Himself up for the church in a complete sacrifice, we are willing, lovingly, to make whatever sacrifices are required of us for the sake of the inestimable treasure that is marriage.

My only concern is to know how this will play out in the future.  It’s great to have a manifesto to focus vision and efforts … but where will this lead?  What comes next?  The message above and in the full document is powerful but will it be applied consistently in the strength of truth, love and grace?

I guess we will find out won’t we?

I am impressed with the document and pray that it increases compassion while calling on Christians to stand up for these three issues.  As we often say, public policy is only important because people are important. I am very pleased the authors of this declaration took significant time to acknowledge that we all struggle with something and regardless we should recognize and respect the dignity inherent in everyone.

I also love that they acknowledge the errors of the church and sexual issues across the board.  I would have liked to have seen grace become the contextualizing issue surrounding that part a little more directly.  But the fact that they did humble themselves is in itself an act of grace and that is wonderful.  This represents a dramatic change from thirty or forty years ago.

Again, what do you think?  I only posted the part about marriage here because while the declaration is relatively short … it’s really long for a blog post. Marriage is the topic that comes up the most among people involved within Exodus.  Feel free to bring up the other topics in the declaration, especially the ending part on Religious Liberty if you’d like to in the comments.

MORE:

Of People and Politics: Part One by Alan Chambers

Of People and Politics: Part Two by Alan Chambers

Honoring Marriage – an Interview with Andy Comiskey and Jason Thompson

Download the full Manhattan Declaration

Visit The Manhattan Declaration’s Website